Photography and Orality
Dialogues in Bamako, Dakar and Elsewhere

MAKING A LIVING FROM PHOTOJOURNALISM

Q What is the situation for photographers living in Bamako?
AS In Mali, there are two types of photographer: those who take photographs to pay their bills and those who do artistic photography. Most photographers manage to earn a living from their work, although it’s primarily from photojournalism and commercial photography. They shoot weddings, christenings and ceremonies, or travel to the various districts to cover cultural events around the city. The majority of photographers here do this kind of work. Then there are photographers whose work is more creative, who are artists, and they’re a minority here. They earn their living from exhibitions, giving lectures and from the sale of their work. It’s a tough life for photographers in Mali, because people here don’t buy photographic prints. People don’t decorate their bedroom or living room walls with photographs. Photographs essentially serve as keepsakes and memorabilia, and this kind of photo can be purchased at a very low price.

THE MAISON AFRICAINE DE LA PHOTOGRAPHIE

Q You work at the Maison Africaine de la Photographie [African Centre for Photography]. You no doubt have a clear and insightful understanding of the work environment for young photographers in Mali today, in 2011, and the opportunities they have to develop their practice and exhibit their work. Can you describe this context for us?
AS The Maison Africaine de la Photographie serves as a venue to exhibit the work of photographers in Bamako. It’s a state-run organization whose mission is to disseminate, promote and collect photographic images. The Centre has the technical expertise to present exhibitions and to promote Malian photographers. As the African capital of photography, Bamako now also hosts the African Encounters with Photography, which are held every two years. This Biennale serves as an international showcase that allows local photographers to gain recognition for their work all over the world. We also provide funding to artists thanks to a programme financed by the European Union to support artistic activities. To be eligible for this funding, you must submit a project, and that’s often difficult for Malian artists, because the majority of photographers aren’t highly-educated. In many cases, when they’re asked to submit an application, they have trouble defining and writing their proposals, which leads to a great deal of frustration. The Maison Africaine de la Photographie plays an important role in this process by assisting with mediation and helping people develop their projects so that they can access funding. In addition to supporting photographers with their various projects, the Centre also does a tremendous amount of work to promote and publicise the work of Malian artists.

CONTEMPORARY PHOTOGRAPHY, A NEW PHENOMENON

Q The African Encounters with Photography in Bamako have existed for almost twenty years now. What changes have they brought about in terms of the city’s art scene, as well as the importance of photography in society?
AS Photography is a cultural product. Here in Mali, personal relationships are very high-valued. People like to preserve their memories. There’s a strong tradition of photo albums here, it’s an established custom. In a different way, contemporary photography offers us a perspective on other areas of life: it can focus on what’s happening around us without having to show anyone’s face. It can portray a different part of a person’s body, or an object. That approach to photography is very recent here. Malian photographers have discovered this kind of photography primarily through the Bamako Encounters, because this event has shown us work by photographers from other countries who have a contemporary approach. When their work was first exhibited here, many people asked, "What kind of photos are these that don’t even show people?" That was people’s first reaction. Even today, this kind of photography only interests a very small part of the population. Many photographers are not based in Bamako, they live in the villages, and subjects like those explored in contemporary photography don’t have a great deal of meaning to them. As I explained, people here in Mali associate photography with a representation of people. Photos are assumed to show a person, not other things. That’s the reason why portraiture remains central to Malian photography, even if it’s important to understand that there are also photographers who explore subjects other than portraits. Nowadays, we have many young photographers emerging in the industry who work in the art field. Their work is contemporary; their subjects can be objects, situations or monuments, which are unrelated to portraiture.

ART IN SÉGOU AND BAMAKO

Q We were very surprised to hear you say that the Chab Touré Gallery in Bamako had closed down and moved to Ségou. Could you explain the reasons behind this move?
AS It didn’t work out for the gallery in Bamako because of the gallery’s particular vision. Today, Ségou is recognized as the artistic centre of Mali. The city has become a must-see destination for both tourists and artists. When artists visit Mali, or Bamako, Ségou is always included in their itineraries. This southern city is a favourite location for galleries nowadays. I think that’s why Amadou Chab Touré moved the gallery there. He’s a highly-educated man, so he would have done the necessary research to assess the feasibility of his plan before moving. I believe he’s trained as a philosopher and studied aesthetics in Paris, as well as curatorship. I’m sure he would have carried out a market study that recommended moving his gallery Ségou. I also believe that Ségou is a focal point of the art scene these days, it’s become an essential port of call. Everything you see in Bamako has also travelled to Ségou. It’s the artists’ city now.
Q Don’t you think that the African Encounters with Photography in Bamako have changed the dynamics for art galleries, with visitors, gallery owners and perhaps art collectors travelling to Bamako at least every two years?
AS As you know, the African Encounters with Photography take place in Bamako in a particular month. Art collectors and gallery owners are in town for only a week, and then they leave. One week is not enough time for a gallery. What’s more, Ségou is not far from Bamako, which means that the people who come to Bamako for the Biennale always take an extra couple of days to go to Ségou. It’s only two or three hours’ drive from Bamako. At the same time, there are no doubt other reasons that influenced Amadou Chab Touré’s decision to move his gallery.

THE INTERVIEW AS A WORKING TOOL

Q Can you tell us about the projects you are currently working on?
AS I have a project in mind, which involves working with up-and-coming young photographers. If you visit the Maison de la Photographie’s website, you’ll see a section entitled "Éditorial photo", which is a project that I initiated. For this project, I select young artists, organize an interview with them and compose a short article on them using their photographs. I then post these articles on the website. Using this as a departure point, my current plan is to develop a photography agency that would give young photographers a chance to communicate with each other and gain exposure for their work, particularly with advertising agencies who may wish to use their photographs to illustrate their various projects. We need to develop contacts in the wider world in order to exchange information and promote the sale of photographs, as well as to raise the profile of up-and-coming photographers. This is an ongoing project, and I’ve been in contact with a Dutch company to discuss its development.
AS The value of the interview as a method is something I’m very interested in: it’s an interactive and personal approach. When you interview someone, you’re in direct contact with them. You’re able to directly witness their reactions to your questions. You take into consideration people’s expressions, responses, feelings. During the interview process, there’s no filter between myself and the person in front of me, it’s only afterwards, at the transcription stage, that reflection and a certain distance come into play. At that point, it’s no longer direct contact. When interviewees read the transcription of the interview, they can think over the ideas they expressed. This process was a little difficult at first, because the photographers I interviewed were not particularly at ease with discussing their work. They had trouble expressing what they really thought. For many of them, it was the first time they’d been interviewed. For this reason, I decided to start by asking them to explain their ideas to me as clearly as they could in writing. It’s only after that stage that I organize interviews. I try to get to know them a little before developing the discussion face to face. The whole process takes a certain amount of time, between our first meeting, when I explain my intentions, and the final interview. There’s a written component before and after the interview.

Interview conducted in Bamako, Maison Africaine de la Photographie, 14.02.2011
by Bärbel Küster, Marleine Chedraoui, Judith Rottenburg, Janine Schöne, Tanja Schüz