Photography and Orality
Dialogues in Bamako, Dakar and Elsewhere

SYMBOLS, ROOTS, IDENTITY

Q What is your reason for using signs and symbols in your work?
EBD It’s important for young people to know about where they come from and who their elders were so that they can maintain a link with their heritage. I use symbols to talk about our roots and our identity. In Bamako, it’s rare these days to see elders telling children a traditional folk tale. Children need to know what life was like for our elders. The images we see on television, for example, come from other places. They don’t relate to us, and, as a result, we lose our own reference points. In my work on the elders of our society, my aim is to step back into the past using signs and symbols that express our values, so that young people of today – whom I call "the new generation" – can understand that we had certain values in the past and that these values still exist. As the proverb says, "If you know where you come from, you’ll know where you’re going".

A TANGIBLE WITNESS TO A MOMENT IN TIME

EBD Mali has a rich tradition of portrait photography, epitomized by the well-known photographers Malick Sidibé and the late Seydou Keïta. People love to be photographed to show off their fine clothes and demonstrate their social status. They generally have their portraits taken on festive occasions, when they’ve bought a smart new boubou and had their hair done. But the African Encounters with Photography in Bamako have shown us that photography goes beyond portraiture. Photography is a means of communication, a way of conveying messages, and, above all, a tangible witness to a moment in time. When I have an exhibition, I often say, "It’s better to see something once than to hear it a thousand times." I try to explain this to people who refuse to be photographed. There are always elderly people who say, "No, no, I don’t want my picture taken!", but I explain to them, "If you die, how will your grandson know that you existed? If he sees a photo of you, he’ll be able to say right away, 'Wow, I look just like my grandfather!'" That’s the value of photography as testimony, it creates memories. This is how I explain the meaning of photography to people who say to me, "If you take a picture of me, then people will look at me after my death." I tell them, "What matters is that people know what you looked like and that your grandchildren can recognize the similarities and differences in how they look themselves, and this gives them a point of reference."

USING COMMUNICATION IN PHOTOGRAPHY

Q What is the role of oral communication in your work as a photographer?
EBD If you want to take good photographs, you must be able to establish a connection with people, to communicate effectively. I always explain my approach to the people I photograph. Photography has the ability to freeze moments in time, but it can also convey messages. It’s because of photography’s message value that I always begin by explaining my work. When I first started out, I didn’t communicate a great deal with people, and, as a result, I felt that my images lacked something. That’s because by not communicating, the photographer puts a distance between himself and his subject, and that creates a gap. When we communicate, we build a rapport, and from that point we can guide the situation and offer people the chance to express themselves. I always tell photographers, "You mustn’t ignore your own presence. It’s your personality that makes you a good or bad photographer." Through communication, a photographer can arouse people’s emotions and inspire meaningful, exceptional moments. And, if you’re lucky, you can capture those moments. As people say, a good photo is a blessing from God.

PAINTING AND CARICATURE

Q Before you decided to dedicate yourself to photography, you were a painter.
EBD Yes, I originally trained as a painter. I studied at the National Art School in Bamako. I began working with photography as part of my work as a portrait painter, photographing my clients before drawing and painting them. But I ended up exclusively using photography for my portraits. My first professional camera was a Zenit, a Russian brand. I also used a small Sony camera for my non-professional work. Nonetheless, I’ve never completely abandoned painting. I also do calligraphy and design display banners, advertising billboards and illuminated signs. Nowadays, it’s mostly my work as a cartoonist for newspapers that keeps me connected with painting. My graduation from the National Art School coincided with a period of democratization in Mali. New newspapers were being founded at that time and their editorial teams needed pictures to illustrate their texts, so I started working for them as a photographer and a cartoonist.

AN ASSOCIATION DEDICATED TO PHOTOGRAPHY IN BAMAKO

Q Can you tell us about the photography association you founded in Bamako in 1994? What is its purpose and what is the situation for the association today?
EBD The main objective of this association is to raise Malian people’s awareness of the fact that there’s more to photography than identity photographs or pictures of parties and weddings. Photography is a field in which we can express our emotions, desires and many other things. We created the association at the time of the first African Encounters with Photography in 1994. Its name is Djaw-Mali (Djaw means "images"), and we currently have around twenty members. At first, there were only three of us, but thanks to the initiatives we’ve organized and the fact that our subject is photography, and also thanks to the Encounters that are held every two years, people have gradually taken an interest in the association. It serves as a forum for exchanging ideas, where we promote a concept of photography as a field of artistic exploration and creative expression, meaning something that’s not commercially-oriented. It’s a way of increasing awareness of contemporary photography. The association grew out of that idea, and led to the creation three years ago of a Digital Club dedicated to teaching people about digital photography, because digital cameras have arrived in Mali now. Anybody with a digital camera can come to the Club to show their photos and discuss them, with the idea of improving their work. Djaw-Mali has now become the Digital Club, with its focus on paving the way for the future. We’d like to turn it into a kind of photographic agency offering training that would give photographers a solid base to build on. Anyone can become a member of the association. Right now, I’m training a small group of photographers in skills such as the use of Photoshop and how to manipulate images on a computer.
Q Can you give us an example of a subject you work on with your Club?
EBD The choice of subjects is very open, anything’s possible. One theme we worked on recently was The Thousand Faces of Bamako. I was curious to see how photographers would react to applying the term "face" – which is usually attributed to a person – to the city of Bamako. The Faces of Bamako theme can be applied to any subject, such as scenery, architecture, people or nightlife. The next theme we explored was about small trades, and then the rainy season in Bamako. Today, the weather’s dry and it feels like there’s dust everywhere, but when it rains, it can cause flooding here. It’s a serious problem in Bamako. This subject interested me because of that, and also because I wanted to encourage up-and-coming photographers to take pictures during rainy weather. In different weather conditions, you need to protect your camera and find solutions to technical problems. It’s a useful exercise, as it’s important to learn and to practise taking photographs in all sorts of situations.

A CHRISTIAN PHOTOGRAPHER

EBD In my photography, my work process follows three phases: taking photos, selecting photos and exhibiting them. My first name is Emmanuel – which, for Christians, is another name for Jesus – and, in some ways, I follow what Jesus did with the miracle of the loaves and fishes when he fed five thousand people. Jesus took the bread, blessed it, then distributed it. We find the same process reproduced in photography. Taking a photograph is like taking an object, and blessing something is a little like developing a chosen selection of images, whether they are digital photos or traditional film-based prints. The distribution phase is the exhibition of works. A photographic image can be accessible to at least one or two thousand people; all you need is for a photograph to exist, and for people to walk in front of it and look at it. There’s something in it for everyone. In the Christian parable, Jesus miraculously fed five thousand people with five loaves of bread and two fish. Exhibitions are made up of a group of images, which are multiplied by the viewer’s reception of the works. In this way, every time I have an exhibition, I think of Jesus.

PRESS PHOTOGRAPHY

EBD As a photographer, I collaborate with international newspapers and magazines, such as Jeune Afrique, Afrique Magazine, Planète Jeunes, from time to time with French newspapers, such as Le Figaro, and on one occasion with Le Monde and Télérama magazine. But here in Bamako, I collaborate with almost all the newspapers, because I work with most of the journalists here. It’s mostly commissioned work – press photographs taken in real-life situations. It’s a fast-paced work environment in which clients might need a portrait taken of someone or a photo reportage on a particular event. But I still try to incorporate an artistic approach into my journalistic work, to find the best angle for a profile shot, the most effective lighting. The image must also be visually appealing to the viewer.

TITLES REPRESENT THE STORY BEHIND THE PHOTOGRAPH

Q How do you see the relationship between text and photographs, for example in your choice of titles?
EBD This choice generally depends on the particular presentation of the photo and on my interpretation of the image. That’s how I find the right text, words, or title. For example, I covered a story on female genital mutilation, a practice I condemn and which I’ve observed at close hand because I have an aunt who regularly performs this procedure. I didn’t want to take photographs that would shock people, because sexuality is a taboo subject in our society. I wanted my images to be sober and understated, to be capable of explaining what excision means and what the practice involves. In the case of one photo, I was intrigued by a tear running down a young girl’s cheek. She wept, but she didn’t cry out, and her mother was very proud that her daughter who had just been excised didn’t scream. The title I gave this photo, which I’ll show you, is Tears of Joy, even though the little girl was in pain. At the time of taking a photo, as well as during the selection of photos that follows, many things can happen that influence our perception and interpretation of images. The title of a photo represents the story behind the image.

THE TRANSMISSION OF KNOWLEDGE

EBD I’m currently working on a project based on the theme of blacksmiths, with a focus on the issue of sustainability – in terms of the skills passed down from father to son and also in relation to iron as a resource. In Africa, especially in Mali, blacksmiths are highly-respected, since in our mythology, the blacksmith was the first man on Earth. Blacksmiths know the secrets of fire and metal. To give visibility to this notion of sustainability, I went out to meet blacksmiths and spent some time with them. I would also like to set up some staged situations with them and to try to explain my theme to them in relation to the transmission of their knowledge of from father to son.

Interview conducted in Bamako, Hamdallaye, Association Djaw-Mali, 15.02.2011
by Bärbel Küster, Marleine Chedraoui, Judith Rottenburg, Janine Schöne, Tanja Schüz

THE MASTER OF THE KNIFE

Q What is the story behind the Master of the Knife?
EBD In the Malinke villages in Mali, such as Mienka, Fatmata, Dafi and GamBambara, where I’m from, someone always holds the position of Master of the Knife that is used for sacrifices. This person is the wisest man, the one who is the most well-informed about the rites of the village’s secret society. Malian villages are organized into secret societies that are structured around specific age groups. A man reaches the final age group when he becomes a complete man, meaning when he marries. For men, this is generally around the age of 25. This doesn’t apply to women, as women aren’t included in these secret societies. According to tradition, there must be a Master of the Knife who is able to take the role of master of ceremonies, priest or officiant at sacrifices whenever they’re necessary, to summon the forces of evil and call upon the spirits to protect the village.
Q Is it the knife that makes the blacksmith the most feared man in the village?
EBD Yes. Knives are used to inflict pain, to cut and pierce things. But they’re also tools we can use to protect ourselves from being attacked. The knife as an object embodies all these roles: protection, service, service, sacrifice. A knife is not only a tool of sacrifice; it also symbolizes the ancestral techniques that the Master of the Knife summons. When there’s a ritual cutting of an animal’s throat, or the slaughter of a chicken, the Master of the Knife uses a range of different knives and recites incantations. The use of the knife is always accompanied by spoken words, which in most cases ask for forgiveness and seek goodwill and assistance from the ancestors and spirits in order for the sacrifice to be accepted.
Q What is this knife like? Is it an old knife or a recently-forged one?
EBD The knife used is usually the oldest knife in the village. It’s always one that has been made by hand by a blacksmith, because we can’t use industrially-produced knives for sacrifices. Even if some people use more recent knives, the main knife used for the ritual must be one that has been in the village for many years, which was perhaps used for the very first sacrifice ceremony held in the village. This knife is handed down from father to son, or from one high priest to another. As I explained, the ritual always relies on the ability of the person in charge to respect the rules governing sacrifices.

THE BLACKSMITH

EBD I plan to continue with this project about blacksmiths, because it’s truly a vast subject. I know that in my village and in the Dafing, Bambara and Malinké communities, the blacksmith is considered the most feared man on Earth, since he has gained mastery over fire and the melting of metal, and can make instruments of war. But blacksmiths also know how to fabricate cultural objects, tools for providing protection, cooking equipment, and so forth, which makes the blacksmith the most important man in the village. He’s the only one who has the right to touch the oldest knife in the village without asking permission from anyone. Masters of the Knife are generally always blacksmiths, or, in any case, the most highly-initiated leaders of the village.
Q How did you go about meeting blacksmiths in the villages for this series?
EBD I first had to find intermediaries who could introduce me to the blacksmiths. But in the village I come from, it wasn’t difficult. People said, "Since you’re from here, we know you’ll respect our traditions. So, just make yourself at home!" That’s how I was able to make contact with them. I learned to forge metal so that I, too, could earn the title of blacksmith. I have cousins who are blacksmiths, who shared the secrets of the profession with me. Not everyone’s allowed to know those secrets, they’re only told to the guardians of the tradition.
Q How does the knife become a sacred object?
EBD The knife is sanctified by practical usage. When it’s used and sacred ointments and various concoctions are applied to it, it becomes sacred. Whenever I meet with blacksmiths, they’re kind enough to give me a knife as a gift, because I tell them that I prefer hand-made knives to industrially-produced ones that you find in the city. Their knives are made from excellent quality iron. Blacksmiths all say that the iron must be unrefined, extracted straight from the earth to facilitate communication with the ancestors, who, according to the Ancients, live underground.
Q Is that under the ground of the village?
EBD Yes! The iron is found in a hole in the ground not far from the village.
Q As we can see in your series, blacksmiths are a family.
EBD That’s right, they belong to the big family of blacksmiths, which is responsible for handing down particular words, secrets and knowledge from father to son. The blacksmith’s wife is a potter. She has mastery over the earth and transforms clay into cooking pots, plates and other kitchen utensils. She is well-respected because everyone must come to her to get the pots they need for cooking their meals. Her husband, the blacksmith, generally has control over the handling of weapons, since he’s the one who makes them. Blacksmiths are often excellent hunters and farmers as well. They’re also artists, because they’re the ones who fabricate masks, and this talent adds to their authority as the guardians of tradition. Through their work forging iron, they become very strong – in all their fields of activity. Blacksmiths generally provide an image of strength and power; they represent the virility of the village.

Interview conducted in Stuttgart-Leinfelden, 04.02.2014
by Bärbel Küster