Photography and Orality
Dialogues in Bamako, Dakar and Elsewhere

A POSITIVE IMAGE OF AFRICA

Q In one article, you set yourself apart from those who consider photography as a tool for witnessing the world. You see it, instead, as an invitation to dreaming. Do you think that photography in Africa tends to show a more negative side of reality? Do you try to have a more creative approach to portraying this reality?
OVD We have all schools of thought in Africa. I think we need to have photographers who specialize in showing the things that are not right in our society; we have a duty to document that. There are people who are very good at that, and others who are a little less familiar with these difficult situations. As a Senegalese person from Dakar, I’m a very urban person – Dakar is all I know. It’s a world I know very well, this collection of different personalities that make up our society, because I’m a part of it. That’s the subject I’m most interested in. I think that people like me who focus on this side of Africa, this urban culture which is very open to the rest of the world – and always has been – are just as important as those who have the competence, legitimacy and inclination to tackle more problematic subjects. It’s a question of balance, and each individual must be able to specialize in what interests him most, and in subjects that have the potential to make an impact, not just on the African continent, but also on people’s perceptions of Africa in the rest of the world.

ART FOR EVERYONE – AN ANECDOTE

Q You said that you approach your subject of interest in a playful way. How important is your audience to you, both people here in Africa and in Europe?
OVD There’s a story I often tell, which always makes me smile. The first time I exhibited my series The Future of Beauty [from 2011-2012] in Senegal – it was my first photography project, I was still totally unknown here – I hung my prints on the gallery walls myself. The cleaning staff of the Centre where the exhibition was held had just finished their work day and were preparing to go home. There was a group of three or four women who stopped in front of one photo. I think it was my photo showing a model with scouring sponges attached to her head. They were chatting freely about it, because they had no idea that I was the photographer, they assumed I was a carpenter setting up the show. I found it very amusing that they strongly identified with the image because of the way the headscarf had been knotted. One woman said that the hairstyle with pompoms reminded her of an old photograph of her grandmother with her hair done in the style of the 1950s. That sparked a whole conversation about what that particular hairstyle was called, with one woman claiming she knew, and another saying, "No, you’re wrong, it was called such-and-such, because my mother was still doing it in the 1960s". That made me really happy, much more so than the media reaction or people’s artistic appreciation of my work. I found their feedback very gratifying, particularly in the case of this project, because my work is directed to everyone, including cleaning ladies. Of course these women weren’t going to put scouring sponges in their hair the following day, but at least it got them thinking and they didn’t simply walk past the photos the way I imagine they’d done at other exhibitions, saying "Oh, that’s just crazy art stuff!" My work struck a chord with them and they took the time to talk about it, and they tuned into certain cues and references I’d placed in the image. That memory is still clear in my mind, and whenever I’m composing a photo, I try to have something to say that is accessible to everybody. We have a proverb that says, "Bread is not only made for bakers", so why should art only be created for artists? It should be created for everybody, because art is a social product and it’s very important to me to take that into account.

"THIS IS NOT AN X-RAY, IT’S PHOTOGRAPHY"

OVD All the work is really done before a photograph is taken. It’s essential to build a relationship with your subject. It’s a team effort, it’s not only the photographer who’s doing the work. The subject must feel relaxed and there must be a sense of familiarity so that you can understand where their comfort zones lie and work out what is most photogenic, what the person wants to express in the photograph. It’s not an X-Ray we’re taking, it’s a photograph. Usually, prior to a photo session, I have many meetings with people to discuss what we’ll do. I make sure that it’s a laid-back experience, and, in addition to that, I tend to work very fast. My photo sessions rarely last longer than fifteen minutes.

USING TEXTILE AS A NARRATIVE DEVICE

Q What role do colour and fabrics play in your photography?
OVD Fabrics are usually an important element. The choice of textiles can be a very effective way of evoking a context and alluding to themes relating to the person being photographed, such as by playing with particular geometric patterns or the origins of the fabrics. When I look back at each of the portraits I’ve taken and think about why I chose that particular graphic design in the fabric, I often realize that the design matches perfectly with the idea I have of that person. And people generally identify with those choices. I always choose my backgrounds, but what people decide to wear depends on their personalities. Sometimes they have a clear idea of what to wear, but other times they let me choose. In most cases, I have some input, or at least I add a little drama to their original idea.

PHOTOGRAPHIC REFERENCES

Q How do you position yourself in relation to the world of international fashion photography? Which tradition do you identify with?
OVD Names like Jean-Paul Goude, Annie Leibovitz and Richard Avedon come to mind. What always attracts me and fascinates me about their work is their taste for drama, their interest in the unreal and the fanciful. In fashion photography, as long as it comes across as real, as long as there’s a certain coherence to the image, there’s no problem. It’s an invitation to us to dream. I know that Alexander McQueen wasn’t a photographer, but when you saw his fashion shows, it was obvious that nobody would walk in the streets of London wearing those high heels. Photography offers us a moment to daydream; it allows us to escape into other worlds, to experience the sublime. A fashion photograph can’t be seen in the same light as a National Geographic documentary, it’s not journalism. If that requires additional graphic input, or a lot of retouching, what does it matter? This is also a form of artistic expression, and there’s no rule that says that the creative process ends once a photo is taken. I don’t want to sound pretentious by saying that I’m following in these people’s footsteps, because I know that it takes an incredible amount of work and talent to produce portfolios like theirs. I’m just saying that these are people I consider references in my work.

A GLOBAL HISTORY OF ART

Q You have said that you believe we are in a new era, which nonetheless maintains a connection with the tradition of art history. How do you envisage this combination?
OVD We are constantly influencing each other across the continents. When I look at some of the photographs by Seydou Keïta I think of paintings by Henri Matisse, and in the work of Matisse, we can easily identity African influences, and so on and so forth. Some photos, such as one I believe was taken by Mama Casset of two women with very impressive hairstyles sitting side by side, make me think of Frida Kahlo’s paintings. These connections are so ingrained in us that we’re no longer aware of their influence, even if it’s clearly present. I think that the African – or West African – visual baggage that I carry with me allows me to appeal not only to African audiences, but also to people across the globe, because I tap into influences that come from other places, and it’s only natural that things come full circle.

Interview conducted at the Goethe-Institut Senegal, Dakar, 19.06.2014
by Marion Jäger, Bärbel Küster, Marie-Louise Mayer, Alicia Hernandez Westpfahl